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	<title>Comments on: A False Dichotomy: Non-profit vs. For-profit Solutions</title>
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	<link>http://www.socialvelocity.net/2009/05/a-false-dichotomy-non-profit-vs-for-profit-solutions/</link>
	<description>Accelerating Social Innovation</description>
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		<title>By: Nell Edgington</title>
		<link>http://www.socialvelocity.net/2009/05/a-false-dichotomy-non-profit-vs-for-profit-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-981</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell Edgington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialvelocity.net/?p=745#comment-981</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing. You make a reasoned argument.  However, I sense an underlying assumption that nonprofits are inherently inefficient, and thus your assumption that a for profit model is always preferable.  I don&#039;t think it is that simple.  I will easily admit there are problems with the nonprofit sector, but I strongly disagree with any notion of dismissing the sector overall because of some serious dysfunction within it.  I disagree that a for profit model is always preferable.  The nonprofit sector exists to deliver public goods and as such there will always be a need for their service which cannot be delivered via a for profit model.  Instead of dismissing the nonprofit sector overall, we must work to strengthen the sector, make it more functional, more effective, more efficient and more solutions and results-based.  Then a budding entrepreneur can make a reasoned decision about which model to go with, instead of opting for the for profit whenever possible simply because the alternative is so poor.  Let&#039;s create more options, not limit the options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing. You make a reasoned argument.  However, I sense an underlying assumption that nonprofits are inherently inefficient, and thus your assumption that a for profit model is always preferable.  I don&#8217;t think it is that simple.  I will easily admit there are problems with the nonprofit sector, but I strongly disagree with any notion of dismissing the sector overall because of some serious dysfunction within it.  I disagree that a for profit model is always preferable.  The nonprofit sector exists to deliver public goods and as such there will always be a need for their service which cannot be delivered via a for profit model.  Instead of dismissing the nonprofit sector overall, we must work to strengthen the sector, make it more functional, more effective, more efficient and more solutions and results-based.  Then a budding entrepreneur can make a reasoned decision about which model to go with, instead of opting for the for profit whenever possible simply because the alternative is so poor.  Let&#8217;s create more options, not limit the options.</p>
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		<title>By: Tooth Doc</title>
		<link>http://www.socialvelocity.net/2009/05/a-false-dichotomy-non-profit-vs-for-profit-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-979</link>
		<dc:creator>Tooth Doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialvelocity.net/?p=745#comment-979</guid>
		<description>I am an executive with a socially responsible, for-profit enterprise focused in the healthcare space.  Our mission is to create access to healthcare for under-served populations.  We looked at both models and decided that sustainability was a critical factor in delivering healthcare services and that we didn&#039;t need a 501-c-3 designation to force us to adhere to our socially responsible mission.  Because we get nothing for free we are very prudent with how we spend our money.  Because we can freely employ an HR strategy of hiring the best people without regard to public scrutiny over compensation they may command, we operate with greater efficiency and effectiveness than many non-profits with whom I&#039;ve worked which have nice people, albeit not necessarily the most qualified.  They also must dedicate an inordinate amount of time to grant writing, accountability reports, etc. whereas we focus on delivering healthcare.  

I’ve also seen non-profits become their own cause, rather than the people they are supposed to help.  For example, our organization delivers a broader scale and scope of healthcare services than any non-profit in our space.  One of our segments is a school-based dental program that provides comprehensive dental care to low-income children, including procedures like fillings and extractions right at the school.  We partner with thousands of schools.  Believe it or not, there are non-profits who do far less, like only dental education, dental sealants or fluoride (which we do as well) who fight to keep us out of schools so they can preserve their lesser programs.  In other words, they’d rather these kids live with their existing tooth decay than have us come in and fix the problems.  Why would a supposedly socially responsible (non-profit) organization want to prevent poor children from getting healthcare?  To exist, that’s why.    They will hang their hat on the fact that they are non-profit as opposed to what they actually are able to accomplish.

The key advantage I see for non-profits is the perception that they are more socially responsible and therefore more worthy of support than for-profits.  For this reason, more agencies may wish to align with them to further the social cause and/or business purpose.  They also can qualify for certain grants that a for-profit cannot.  

In healthcare, I&#039;ve seen a lot of non-profits come and go.  They are there one year after they get a grant and then hire a bunch of people and after a year or two they are gone or significantly reduced in scale and/or scope.  While they exist, they spend their money on capital equipment that ends up under-utilized because there is not enough money left to operate it full-time.  When the grant runs out they must liquidate these assets at rock-bottom prices (which our company then buys and employs in our sustainable, for-profit model for the identical socially responsible purpose except we do it better).  

Whenever a for-profit model can get the job done in a sustainable and responsible manner, the for-profit model should be used.  In cases where a donation/grant-funded model is the only way, then and only then should a sole non-profit model be used (i.e., providing healthcare services to those with no ability to pay).  There also needs to be broader recognition by society that a for-profit entity can be just as socially responsible as a non-profit so that more entrepreneurs will consider the for-profit model.  In the long-run we&#039;ll all be better off for this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an executive with a socially responsible, for-profit enterprise focused in the healthcare space.  Our mission is to create access to healthcare for under-served populations.  We looked at both models and decided that sustainability was a critical factor in delivering healthcare services and that we didn&#8217;t need a 501-c-3 designation to force us to adhere to our socially responsible mission.  Because we get nothing for free we are very prudent with how we spend our money.  Because we can freely employ an HR strategy of hiring the best people without regard to public scrutiny over compensation they may command, we operate with greater efficiency and effectiveness than many non-profits with whom I&#8217;ve worked which have nice people, albeit not necessarily the most qualified.  They also must dedicate an inordinate amount of time to grant writing, accountability reports, etc. whereas we focus on delivering healthcare.  </p>
<p>I’ve also seen non-profits become their own cause, rather than the people they are supposed to help.  For example, our organization delivers a broader scale and scope of healthcare services than any non-profit in our space.  One of our segments is a school-based dental program that provides comprehensive dental care to low-income children, including procedures like fillings and extractions right at the school.  We partner with thousands of schools.  Believe it or not, there are non-profits who do far less, like only dental education, dental sealants or fluoride (which we do as well) who fight to keep us out of schools so they can preserve their lesser programs.  In other words, they’d rather these kids live with their existing tooth decay than have us come in and fix the problems.  Why would a supposedly socially responsible (non-profit) organization want to prevent poor children from getting healthcare?  To exist, that’s why.    They will hang their hat on the fact that they are non-profit as opposed to what they actually are able to accomplish.</p>
<p>The key advantage I see for non-profits is the perception that they are more socially responsible and therefore more worthy of support than for-profits.  For this reason, more agencies may wish to align with them to further the social cause and/or business purpose.  They also can qualify for certain grants that a for-profit cannot.  </p>
<p>In healthcare, I&#8217;ve seen a lot of non-profits come and go.  They are there one year after they get a grant and then hire a bunch of people and after a year or two they are gone or significantly reduced in scale and/or scope.  While they exist, they spend their money on capital equipment that ends up under-utilized because there is not enough money left to operate it full-time.  When the grant runs out they must liquidate these assets at rock-bottom prices (which our company then buys and employs in our sustainable, for-profit model for the identical socially responsible purpose except we do it better).  </p>
<p>Whenever a for-profit model can get the job done in a sustainable and responsible manner, the for-profit model should be used.  In cases where a donation/grant-funded model is the only way, then and only then should a sole non-profit model be used (i.e., providing healthcare services to those with no ability to pay).  There also needs to be broader recognition by society that a for-profit entity can be just as socially responsible as a non-profit so that more entrepreneurs will consider the for-profit model.  In the long-run we&#8217;ll all be better off for this.</p>
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		<title>By: Nell Edgington</title>
		<link>http://www.socialvelocity.net/2009/05/a-false-dichotomy-non-profit-vs-for-profit-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-508</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell Edgington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialvelocity.net/?p=745#comment-508</guid>
		<description>Robert,

I agree with you, much more needs to be done in helping 
nonprofits understand and use outcomes and this is all part of a larger need for capacity and infrastructure in the nonprofit sector.  I think funders can definitely help to finance that infrastructure, but I also think that nonprofits themselves have to work towards understanding how their work in the community is actually having an impact.  Their business models have to include a measurable 
social impact piece.  So I think we are in agreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,</p>
<p>I agree with you, much more needs to be done in helping<br />
nonprofits understand and use outcomes and this is all part of a larger need for capacity and infrastructure in the nonprofit sector.  I think funders can definitely help to finance that infrastructure, but I also think that nonprofits themselves have to work towards understanding how their work in the community is actually having an impact.  Their business models have to include a measurable<br />
social impact piece.  So I think we are in agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Robert M. Penna</title>
		<link>http://www.socialvelocity.net/2009/05/a-false-dichotomy-non-profit-vs-for-profit-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Robert M. Penna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialvelocity.net/?p=745#comment-507</guid>
		<description>You make the point, regarding the question of whether nonprofits are, as Tony Wang contends, ineffecient, that nonprofits are being &quot;encouraged&quot; to track and demonstrate outcomes.  You add that there is still much work to be done.  I agree; but at the same time note that Ken Berger recently wrote of finding that fewer than 10% of nonprofits are working with outcomes.  The problem is not, as might be taken from your comment, that the &quot;metrics&quot; are imperfect; but rather it is that too few nonprofits have any real notion of what good outcomes are or how to manage toward them.  Worse still, many believe that they lack the resources to learn what they need to know.  This situation is not llikely to change until funders stop simply asking for outcomes, and start providing nonprofits with the resources needed to understand and actually use outcomes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make the point, regarding the question of whether nonprofits are, as Tony Wang contends, ineffecient, that nonprofits are being &#8220;encouraged&#8221; to track and demonstrate outcomes.  You add that there is still much work to be done.  I agree; but at the same time note that Ken Berger recently wrote of finding that fewer than 10% of nonprofits are working with outcomes.  The problem is not, as might be taken from your comment, that the &#8220;metrics&#8221; are imperfect; but rather it is that too few nonprofits have any real notion of what good outcomes are or how to manage toward them.  Worse still, many believe that they lack the resources to learn what they need to know.  This situation is not llikely to change until funders stop simply asking for outcomes, and start providing nonprofits with the resources needed to understand and actually use outcomes.</p>
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		<title>By: Highlights from the GSVC &#171; Philosopher 2.0</title>
		<link>http://www.socialvelocity.net/2009/05/a-false-dichotomy-non-profit-vs-for-profit-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>Highlights from the GSVC &#171; Philosopher 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialvelocity.net/?p=745#comment-506</guid>
		<description>[...] response to my post on Charity vs. Business: The Business Case, I just wanted to thank everyone who commented in the blogosphere and everyone who propelled the conversation into the twittersphere [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] response to my post on Charity vs. Business: The Business Case, I just wanted to thank everyone who commented in the blogosphere and everyone who propelled the conversation into the twittersphere [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nell Edgington</title>
		<link>http://www.socialvelocity.net/2009/05/a-false-dichotomy-non-profit-vs-for-profit-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-488</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell Edgington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 18:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialvelocity.net/?p=745#comment-488</guid>
		<description>I agree.  We definitely need to understand better the various models and the benefits of each.  And I&#039;m not giving up on the hybrids (like the LC3s) just yet.  Let&#039;s do a little more research and see some more in action before we dismiss them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.  We definitely need to understand better the various models and the benefits of each.  And I&#8217;m not giving up on the hybrids (like the LC3s) just yet.  Let&#8217;s do a little more research and see some more in action before we dismiss them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Wang</title>
		<link>http://www.socialvelocity.net/2009/05/a-false-dichotomy-non-profit-vs-for-profit-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-486</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 16:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialvelocity.net/?p=745#comment-486</guid>
		<description>Thanks Nell for the very thoughtful and intelligent response! I ultimately agree with most of your points - and to respond to your question of &quot;Why does it have to be either, or?&quot; - the answer is that it doesn&#039;t!

What the sector really needs to understand is the comparative advantage of the business and nonprofit forms. You&#039;re absolutely right that the optimal form depends on the problem, but we need to know when the optimal form is business and when the optimal form is charity. This post is a very small step in the dark towards identifying the comparative advantage of business, but we&#039;ll need more conversations like these and more research on the topic before we can truly understand when to apply a nonprofit solution and when to apply a business solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Nell for the very thoughtful and intelligent response! I ultimately agree with most of your points &#8211; and to respond to your question of &#8220;Why does it have to be either, or?&#8221; &#8211; the answer is that it doesn&#8217;t!</p>
<p>What the sector really needs to understand is the comparative advantage of the business and nonprofit forms. You&#8217;re absolutely right that the optimal form depends on the problem, but we need to know when the optimal form is business and when the optimal form is charity. This post is a very small step in the dark towards identifying the comparative advantage of business, but we&#8217;ll need more conversations like these and more research on the topic before we can truly understand when to apply a nonprofit solution and when to apply a business solution.</p>
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